Note: John Keen was possibly a step-brother. There is also a brother Jacob but I only have the name, and his being with the family is noted on 2 petitions, one signed with his brother Moses and the other with brother Gilbert. There is also a David Keen (another possible sibling) traveling with the family at some point, and is noted with Josiah on a petition in 1815.
Revision: Writer has since this note was posted verified these were indeed siblings.
hello big joe keen! i'm looking for the family my great grandmother emily jane keene lee born in ms in 1834. her father was named henry born 1806 and i read that zecharrah keen had a son by that name and birthdate so i would like to pick your brain about all this! ;) my email address is: mikenandre@gmail.com or reply to me here. just found your blog and want to take some time with it to explore what you have. already looks interesting!
ReplyDeleteandre' ward (maiden name) leibee
Henry was one of Zecharrah's children as listed above. In fact my Great Great Grandfather, who was Joseph Keen's son was named after him. I don't have as much information regarding his name sake but can vouch that he was the son of Zecharrah and Ms. Bush. The older siblings were in the Mississippi Territorial Militia, and some of their service records are posted here. Since Henry was younger he doesn't appear on the paper trail as much. But you can follow the family around with some of the petitions signed that I've posted here. It is difficult to track further back than Zecharrah because during the War of 1812 the British invaded Washington D.C. and it seems some of the records from S.C. might have been burnt up in the process. Also during the time the family was moving around the States on the coast ran all the way to the Mississippi River. But Henry, Zecharrah's son was born in what is now Mississippi but at the time Mississippi Territory included present day Alabama and part of southern Tennessee.
ReplyDeleteWho is Zecharrah,s father
DeleteI have not been able to go further back than Zacharrah. I'd like to know too!
DeleteIt might be Ephraim Keene/Keen/Kein, and spouse name might be Mercy/Marcy Allen/Alin/Allyn? I have that my next great -grandfather was Zachariah Keene married to Bushpo Hoomah; and their son, Josiah Keene was my next great-grandfather. My grandmother (my mom's mom) told me that she had a great-grandmother who was a Cherokee. I'm not sure if she said Cherokee, or Choctaw, but I finally found who seems to be my 4th great-grandmother and same as Zachariah.
DeleteI didn't get my name down on that. I'm the Unknown above. My grandmother was a Hines/Keene and I am at michael.c.insall@gmail.com.
DeleteA number of the Keens from the oldest sibling, Josiah, put in for enrollment in the Choctaw Tribe but were denied due to having lost the ability to speak Choctaw, some having blue eyes, and insufficient documentation. I have their applications to the Dawes hearings. Yet, Rufus Keen was utilized as an interpreter several years later. Also some of the Choctaw in the Keen family hid during times when census was taken to avoid being sent to Oklahoma during Indian removal. Their are Keens (or Keenes) related to us in Simpson, Smith, Neshoba, Newton, Amite, Lawrence, and Choctaw Counties (among others but these are just off the top of my head). This can get a bit confusing as well because several lived in the Choctaw Nation and several Counties did not exist during that time or in the case of Newton County, it was split off from Neshoba. My father takes care of a small cemetery in Neshoba County (Beth El or Bethel Cemetery), it is also called the "Keen Cemetery" and several of Joseph's son Henry is buried there (he was named after your Henry who was Joseph's brother).
ReplyDeleteMy grate grand father was Danial and tried to enroll court records he could only speak a little Choctaw
DeleteI'm having trouble trying to reply to comments on my own blog! I'm trying with a different browser but it might take me a day or so to get up to speed. (If it works!) This has been ongoing the past 2 years but it is nice to hear from you. We are cousins a few times removed.
DeleteAlso we are related to the Keens up by Ackerman, Ms as well as some in Louisiana and Texas.
ReplyDeleteHi, Big Joe. Andre' and I have discovered that we are cousins, both descended from Eli Leonard Lee and Emily Jane Keen Lee. Several trees on ancestry.com show that Henry Keen was the son of Joseph McAdam Keen. After reading your replies to Andre', I am wondering if those trees have confused your great great grandfather Henry with Henry, the son of Zecharrah. Could that be possible? Do you know if your Joseph's middle name was McAdam?
ReplyDeleteI was so excited to read your account of Ms. Bush as I was always told that my grandmother, Laura Bell Lee, was part Choctaw. Thank you for writing this wonderful blog that may finally help us pin down our Keens!
Donnis Arnold
My ancestor Henry was the son of Joseph Keen the son of Zacharrah and Bush. My father (and myself when in Mississippi) tend his grave at the Keen Cemetery (also called Bethel or Beth El Cemetery) in Neshoba County. Most of the information I have is on the children of Joseph Keen and Josiah Keen, both sons of Zacharrah. Although some believe that Joseph and Josiah were sons of Zacharrah by a different wife. I believe they were also children of Miss Bush and Zacharrah. I also note that there were a number of Henry Keen(s) but the way the same first names repeat in the Mississippi Keens this likely shows some relation.
Deletehi and thanks for getting back to me. :) our henry keene was born in 1806 and lived in simpson co ms in 1850. http://interactive.ancestry.com/8054/4200052_00110/3544664?backurl=http://person.ancestry.com/tree/59406149/person/48394332842/facts/citation/343042680148/edit/record --- henry's son andrew is l9 and living in another household 2 doors away (pruitt household) as a laborer and emily jane keene (my grgr-grm) is listed as james (her name is smudged and she is going by jane not emily) in the transcription but she is the 15 yr old female in the house with henry keene and his wife emily. we have a it that grgr-grandmother emily jane was part choctaw so that is why i am interested to know more about her father and would like to see what documentation there is that lists henry b 1806 as son of zecharrah and ms bush because my henry has his birthplace as sc on this census. i am wondering about this since you have mentioned their henry was born in ms. do you think the keene's in ms are pretty much all the same keen family? if you would point me to where to go to look at some documents pertaining i would be most appreciative!
ReplyDeleteemily jane keene and her husband eli leonard lee sr are living in lawrence co ms by 1860. i need to look and find out more of the whereabouts of gilbert and moses keen. it seems that are not far away from emily jane's family and her brothers andrew and william charles enlisted in the confederacy from brookhaven ms (lawrence co). i am hoping our keene's are yours! looks like they sure could be :) thanks for the reply! i have been enjoying your blog. wow! there is so much here......this is some great reading!
andre' ward leibee
I have the list of children of Zacharrah and Bush from various sources from speaking to Keens descended from Josiah as well as my family descended from Joseph. I do not have information on their "brother" Henry. My Henry was Joseph's son. Moses and Gilbert are nearby Josiah and Joseph in Neshoba County census when the post office was in Herbert Springs (I have this but not handy at the moment). Josiah later moved but Joseph stayed in Neshoba County and the family still lives on the original land.
DeleteI haven't forgot about y'all but I'm trying to look through some information with my tired ol' eyeballs. I'll catch up in a few days.
ReplyDeletei definitely want to keep in touch with you. :) i'm learning so much already from all this history you have made available here. your blog is excellent. thank you!
ReplyDeletehi big joe keen. hope things are going well for you. i have looked at your site and read the majority of it. i have really enjoyed it!
ReplyDeletei'm just checking in with you too see if you have anything else that might pertain to henry keen b 1806. i have found a number of keens in ms and some in louisiana and can see they are of zacahrrah and his wife bushpo houma by the naming patterns and dates and localities. am trying to figure out exactly where henry was before simpson co in 1850 and can't find him in neshoba. anyway, should you have anymore tidbits to throw my way , donnis and i would appreciate it :)
thanks for your help and keep up the good work. is a really interesting site you have got here!
I haven't found anything yet. There are various census available in multiple Counties' Historical and Genealogical Society sites and Mississippi has a great deal of information, including tax rolls that fit between census years that have lots of info but are very hard on my old eyeballs nowadays. I primarily have info, that I know is reasonably accurate on the descendants of Josiah and Joseph, but not so much their other brothers beyond the 1812 service records and petitions as well as select census reports and tax rolls.
Deletethanks for checking. it's appreciated. my grgrgr-grf henry keen had sons named david, joseph. and andrew so that reflects the naming pattern. i have been trying to look through census material and tax lists and so far i can't pin down henry keen born 1806. but i believe you when you say you believe that basically the keens in ms are all related. will keep looking to see if i can find out info on my henry keen. would likely be about 5th cousin range to you is my guess. :)
DeleteHello big joe keen,
ReplyDeletePlease see my collection of Keens from SC to MS in mid to late 1800's at http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jrd/j_keen.htm. Is there any possibility that my Elizabeth R. KEEN b.ca.1819 SC (later found in Choctaw, Attala, and Leake Cos., MS) is related to your group of Keens? On my web page I have a guess for her parents but it may be wrong.
Peace, James R. Davis, 6708 Austin Way, Sacramento, CA 95823 - - james.davis1@sbcglobal.net - - 4/9/16
Hi James, We have spoke before, my blog is titled after Joseph Keen brother of Josiah but my name is Dennis Rush. And yes we are related to your group of Keens but I'm not sure if we are related on the Choctaw side to Emily but are definitely related through the older Keen families since Josiah and Joseph as well as Gilbert and Moses were brethren. Neshoba County used to include what is now Newton County. And the Joseph Keen homestead is on the County line. So, in the listing of Gilbert and Moses in 1850 as Newton County is likely for this reason. That is also why we have Keen's buried at sites in both Counties.
DeleteHi Dennis Rush, I found our 2012 exchange of emails on KEEN. I am confused. You keep mentioning Zachariah and Josiah and Joseph in Neshoba Co. and Newton Co., MS but I have Elizabeth KEEN b.ca.1919 (SC?) m. Jared Nelson COMMANDER b.1806 Sumter Dist., SC, d.aft.1861 prob. Leake or Attala Co., MS and lived in CHOCTAW Co. near a Jacob B. Keen. Actually they lived in:
DeleteLeake Co., MS 1835, 1838 Taxpayer
Choctaw Co., MS 1840 Taxpayer
Winston Co., MS 1848 Taxpayer
Leake Co., MS 1850 Census
Winston Co., MS 1860 Census
Please look at my web page at http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jrd/j_keen.htm.
My wife is convinced she has American Indian ancestry through her KEENs but so far I can't find it. I possibly found our Elizabeth b.ca.1819 SC in SC as the dau. of Robert KEEN. But maybe this was just wishfull thinking, so I'm not ruling out a connection to your Keens. If you think you see a connection between our lines I sure would like some help seeing it also.
Peace,
James R. Davis, 6708 Austin Way, Sacramento, CA 95823 - - 4/30/16
" I don't have as much information regarding his name sake but can vouch that he was the son of Zecharrah and Ms. Bush."
ReplyDeleteyou had written this to me in reply to my original email. i am wanting to know how you can vouch for henry keen born 1806 being a son of zecharrah and ms bush. can you direct me to that info so i can document it on my family tree? do you have a bible record or some other information? whatever you happen regarding this would be great. thanks so much for getting back to me. i really appreciate it.
I may have jumped the gun on the 1806 part and should have more accurately stated that Zecharrah and Ms. Bush had a son named Henry who may have been the Henry in question. The Counties mentioned in regard to your Henry were Counties I had noted had relatives to the Keens in my background. So, I may have jumped the gun. Note that by 1806 one could hardly keep up with State and Territory borders and most folks were lucky to be able to sign their names. One could be born in what was S.C. in the late 1780's but a few years later was ceded to Georgia (1787) and then to Mississippi Territory (1802) but then later became part of Tennessee. And some census records can have incorrect information with birth place. This is true with some of the older Keens as I've seen different birth places listed for the same person more than once, but I couldn't tell you whom off the top of my head. I can state that the information on this particular blog is accurate for my specific ancestors. And I gathered information from old Bibles, my cousin's interviews of C.C. Keen (my G.Grandfather who was the son of Henry the son of Joseph), my Father and Grandmother and the children of C.C. Keen, as well as descendants of Josiah Keen. Once I get away from Josiah and Joseph I cannot be quite as accurate. Hope this helps clarify things. My apologies if I jumped to a conclusion too early. But I am rather confident we are shirt-tail kinfolk.
DeleteI know Zecharrah was born around 1750 and have dates somewhere for Josiah and Joseph but not birth dates for the other children.
DeleteThe Keens in Louisiana have some great info but I have clarified that Josiah and Joseph were brothers where some thought Joseph was Zecharrah's brother. It will take me awhile but I'll try to dig out some pictures. I have pictures of my Henry and his children.
Deletehttp://interactive.ancestry.com/8054/4200052_00110/3544664?backurl=http://person.ancestry.com/tree/59406149/person/48394332842/facts/citation/343042680148/edit/record
ReplyDeletei went back and looked and my grgrgr-grf henry keen also has a son named moses and the middle name of one of the boys was thomas...with andrew, david, and joseph, that makes 5 names of kids of zecharrah and ms bush passed down in this family. that makes me think it is a pretty good bet these are related to your keens.
http://person.ancestry.com/tree/59406149/person/48195128736/facts -
and this is a picture of henry's daughter emily jane keen (my grgr-grm). we were told we were part indian. donnis (my cousin who also wrote to you here) knows her grandmother (emily janes's youngest daughter) actually told her personally she was part indian. at that time in ms our guess is choctaw. we think it is more than a guess but want to find proof of our family in neshoba to tie them directly to the keens that were from there. will keep searching! and enjoy it too ;)
thanks for the replies.
hi big joe keen. here is a copy and paste below from 2 different people about some keens in ms and wonder if anything here in this information rings a bell with any information you have about your keens. eli leonard (lee sr) mentioned is my grgrgrf who married emily jane keen daughter of henry keen (b 1806 as i have it). henry t would be her brother henry thomas.
ReplyDeletealso perhaps you know of these people who were sharing this info and who these keens are that they are referring to? if so let me know and thanks for any reply if you find you have time to do so. andre'
"""""""Hi, Andre. I haven't by any means finished researching the Keen family. I've come across Allen J, on the same page of the 1850 census as one of the several John Keens; it looks like he was born late 1820s in Mississippi. I've found no indication that he left Simpson County. Eli Leonard Lee enlisted in the Brookhaven Light Artillery with two other Keens, Henry T and William, who I suspect are more nearly related to Emily--possibly her brothers. William may be the William Charles Keen who is buried in Antioch, and who is supposed to be the son of Henry Keen senior (b. 1806). Henry had daughters who were the right age to be Emily (two aged 5-9 in the 1840 census). Circumstantial evidence only, and there are other candidates, although I think this the most likely. Henry T. apparently married a Margaret King, so there is a good chance I can start to hang the Keen family onto another part of our tree (the King clans were numerous; I just hope it's the right one). Charles Keen buried in New Hope I suspect comes from another branch of the family. His CSA company was raised in Pike County, and he joined up with two other Keens whom I don't recognize. It may be coincidence that he ended up in the Monticello area. The two original Keen 'immigrants', by the way, were Jacob and Joseph, who were in Lawrence County by 1818. Jacob was the one who moved up to Simpson. Joseph stayed in Lawrence, and falls off the map after 1830. I had to leave the computer before I thought to ask if you have any info on a Charles Keen who is buried in New Hope Cemetery-W in Laerence County, MS. His military grave marker reads Charles Keeen, Co. H Mississippi Infantry CSA. This info is from a book of cemetery records from 1810-1888. If you have a birth or death date on him, it would be helpful in elimination, confirmation process. If you recieve my email address with this, please write directly if you would like. I am a novice at this computer and sometimes takes me a while to get back to where I started from. Thanks for any assistance. Jean Robinson
This is my husband's line: Allen J. Keen bn. S.C. -Susan ? He died in Simpson County, Ms. we believe.
James M. (Jim) Keen 1852 and Becky Holmes ,both buried in Cliburn Cemetery, Lawrence County, Ms.
George W. Keen - 1876 -Mary Jane Robinson bn. abt 1881.
Martha Mae Keen 1901 - Cabe Berry .
Your family is probably ours because of the old Simpson County and Lawrence County connection. If you will send me your email address in the next message we can try to sort all this out.My address is eaja@bellsouth.net
Jean Armstrong
Mississippi""""""
Dear Andre, Yes, a few of these folks are familiar to me. Jacob and Joseph are two of Zecharrah's children and are on the 1818 Lawrence County census. After 1830 Joseph is in Neshoba County and appears on census there. Joseph is who this blog is named after. See the information on Jacob in the note and revision regarding the children of Zecharrah in the initial blog post above. There definitely was a Henry T. Keen in Hoskins Battery Mississippi Light Artillery (Brookhaven) but I'm not sure on the accuracy of further info on Henry T. Keen as the info on marriage to Margaret King as the information I am familiar with gives H.T. Keen but does not spell out Henry to my knowledge simply the initials. I ran out of money about this point in regard to Confederate Artillery Units and the requisite texts to do further research are presently out of print.(More regarding this shortly)
Delete"MARGARET S.4 KING (JOHN3, JAMES K.2, JAMES SR.1) was born Abt. 1839 in Lawrence County,Mississippi, and died Bet. 1877 - 1880 in Lawerence County, Mississippi.She married (1) ALLEN T. KING Aug 31, 1857 in Lawrence County, Mississippi, son of JEREMIAH KING and SUSAN UNKNOWN.He died Unknown.She married (2) H. T. KEEN Feb 08, 1866 in Lawrence County, Mississippi.He died Unknown."
The site regarding the King-Keen family is here:
http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/k/i/n/Robert-L-King-LA/GENE9-0005.html
This may indeed be the Henry in your query. But Henry Keen the son of Joseph Keen who moved from Lawrence County to Neshoba (tracked via the Armstrong Roll and subsequent Neshoba Censuses which corresponds to the disappearance from Lawrence County. I have the Lawrence County censuses, etc) was in "Mississippi Light Artillery" but was born 1818 and died either 1906 or 1904 was my Gr Gr Grandfather and my father and I take care of his grave in Neshoba County. I have a picture of him I will post in a new post. Now, he may not be the Henry T. Keen in Brookhaven but when I ran out of money and books, LOL!... I could only find two Henry Keens in Confederate records. But H.T. Keen who married Margaret King may indeed be Henry T. Keen. I do have a land purchase agreement somewhere that may provide a middle initial for Henry in Neshoba but I'm not sure if I have it up here in Michigan. But H.T. Keen who married Margaret King does have a son named Henry. But Henry Keen in neshoba has a CSA (Confederate States of America marker on his grave that states "Mississippi Light Artillery"). I started to get confused with which Artillery Units were which! LOL. And the book I needed with all the muster rolls went out of print!
But the Joseph and Jacob are brothers. Gilbert, and Moses moved to Neshoba County and then Joseph named children after them. The name "Henry" is one frequently seen in most of the Keen families descending from Zecharrah and like the John's starts to complicate things a bit. Again, I'm still led to believe we are shirt-tail kin. Definitely, to the folk in Lawrence County as not all went into Indian Territory. After I post the pic of Henry in Neshoba... I can be very accurate with his children and have pictures of them all. I can be reasonably accurate following the family around from the time they began signing petitions on to Lawrence County and then with Joseph going into Indian Territory (everything north of lawrence was pretty much "Choctaw Nation" until the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek, this is why the Choctaw Nation "Rolls" are important for Joseph that I via Henry in Neshoba descend from. The "John Keen" mentioned by your post was also brother to Joseph, Jacob, Josiah et al and his "War of 1812" service record, along with Josiah and Joseph's are provided on this blog.
I just made two new posts that might help a bit.
DeleteThankyou have looked for these names a long time my name is Joseph Keene Danial Keene great grandson
DeleteNice to meet you Joseph! My name is Dennis Rush. My grandmother was Ruby Keene Rush. We are from up in Neshoba County, Mississippi. It is so nice to hear from you. I'm glad you are finding the information helpful.
Deletehttp://bigjoekeen.blogspot.com/2016/05/joseph-keen-descendants.html
ReplyDeletehttp://bigjoekeen.blogspot.com/2016/05/henry-keen.html
thanks so much for the info! my emily jane keen lived in simpson co ms as a child and when she married my grgrgrf eli leonard lee they lived the rest of their lives in lawrence co ms and are buried there.
ReplyDeleteI am going to have to study all of these posts. I know some of them are talking about my Keen/Keene family.
ReplyDeleteThis is information from the Dawes Census: Daniel Davis 1/2 Choctaw had a daughter by the name of Betsy (Elizabeth) Davis who married Josiah Keen. Josiah and Betsy had the following Children: Daniel, Sarah, Nicholas, Jane, Zachariah, Saville, Elizabeth and John(the names here come from the Scott County Census 1850)
ReplyDeleteDaniel was my great Grandfather thankyou for putting it on line
DeleteHi Ravis,
ReplyDeleteI went back to school, a bit later in life than most... so I haven't had time to respond. I have to run in a few minutes but within the next week or two I'll try to post some of the Dawes Application Packets. I also have a pic (somewhere)of the older Josiah (Joe Keene's Brother). Thank you for your interesting posts.
I am Josiah and Betsy gg grandson and have been looking for these names for a long time Daniel was my great grandfather and would love info on the family
ReplyDeleteIt will take me a while but somewhere I have Daniel Keene's Dawes application.
DeleteI should have said, I have Josiah and Nicholas Keene's Dawes applications. I will try to get them posted this week. I may have a picture of Nicholas and his wife (Samantha Alzada Williams Keene) also.
DeleteGlad to meet you the info you have all of Daniels family have been looking for this for years. Now if we can just find them before Sc. I will start putting a packet together with what we have on Daniel you my already have it
ReplyDeleteHi Joseph,
DeleteI made a new post for you. I don't have all my information here. Nicholas Keen made the most extensive application at the Dawes hearings for Tribal Enrollment. The other applications are just an extension of his and you will see Daniel on the list in Nicholas packet. I also have Josiah's application (the younger Josiah not the elder). I extend from the elder Josiah's brother (Joseph). At one point Josiah and Joseph were together in Neshoba County... the Keen's still live here on the original homeplace but the old house is now gone. I believe Nicholas was born here. But I think you will find this post quite interesting:
https://bigjoekeen.blogspot.com/2020/05/information-pictures-and-dawes-packet.html
I placed a stone on Daniels Wife Janie"s grave and went to his house in Morton and would love to see the home place and meet some family
ReplyDeleteShould have previewed Would love to see the old Keene home place
DeleteHello,
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know about the following KEEN family? My mother-in-law, Aleene Commander GRAY and her mother, Ura (PRICE) COMMANDER worked on their genealogies. They said that Elizabeth R. KEEN 1819 SC-1891 MS was 3/4 Choctaw. Her kids looked like Indians. But I have found quite a bit on the KEENs so think it might not be the KEENs that were the Indians. Might it be Hanna BOWEN 1782 RI (m. Robert T. KEEN 1781-1860) who was in 1860 Choctaw Co.,MS who was the Indian? I suspect they thought it was Choctaw because Elizabeth lived in or near Choctaw Co.,MS. But the Choctaw indians didn’t come from SC or RI did they? Does anyone know about BOWENs?
John KEENE. . . .1750-1781 m. Lydia PORTER 1750-1856
--John KEENE. . . . .1776-1869 m. Lavinia WILLIAMS 1782-1856
--Elizabeth W. KEENE 1779
--Robert T. KEENE . .1781-1860 m. Hanna BOWEN 1782 RI- MS
----William Madison KEEN 1817 RI-1880 m. Nancy HOPKINS
. . . 1840 Providence Co.,RI, 1850,1860 Choctaw Co.,MS, 1880,1900/10/20 Brown Co., TX
----Elizabeth R. KEEN. . 1819 SC-1891 C*, MS m.1838 L* Jared N. COMMANDER 1806 SC-1861 MS
. . . 1850 Leak Co.,MS, 1860 Winston Co.,MS
------William I. COMMANDER 1850-1902 m. Mary M. BRUCE
--------Henry H. COMMANDER 1891-1953 m. Ura PRICE
----------Aleene COMMANDER 1915-2004 m. Patrick GRAY
----Jacob B. KEEN. . . . 1821 SC-1887 MS m. Catherine LEVER
. . . 1850/60/70/80 Choctaw Co.,MS
1781 Scituate, Providence Co., RI
1819 . . . . . . . . . . . SC
1838 . . . . . Leak Co., MS
1850 . . . . . Leak Co., MS and Choctaw Co.,MS
1860 . . . . . Winston Co.,MS and Choctaw Co.,MS
1870 . . . . . Choctaw Co.,MS
1880 . . . . . Choctaw Co.,MS
1891 Chester, Choctaw Co., MS
Peace, Jim
James R. Davis, 6708 Austin Way, Sacramento, CA 95823 -- 5/27/20